Political Talks Archive

1st page | 2nd page | 3rd page | 4th page | 5th page | 6th page | 7th page | 8th page | 9th page | 10th page | 11th page | 12th page | 13th page | 14th page | 15th page | 16th page | 17th page | 18th page | 19th page | 20th page | 21th page | 22th page | 23th page | 24th page | 25th page





Subject:







Next Topic

SUBJECT: ! ! America as fascist state: US Detention of Iraqis Grows Without
GO >>>

From: Thaddeus Stevens
Reply-To: thaddeusstephens(at)gmail.com, fr_e_n_saf_(at)fastmail.us
Organization: BuildingA_NewAmerica
Subject: ! ! America as fascist state: US Detention of Iraqis Grows Without
End ! !
Lines: 249
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 19:47:09 -0400








US Detention of Iraqis Grows Without End By Christopher Kuttruff
t r u t h o u t | Report Wednesday 20 February 2008

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/022008S.shtml

The United States is, once again, expanding the size of its largest detention center in
Iraq. According to an October 31 report by the military paper Stars and Stripes, US forces will
be increasing the capacity of detainees at Camp Bucca from 20,000 to 30,000. (1)

An ever-increasing prison population has put extreme pressure on detainment facilities
as well as on Iraq`s fragile, developing judicial system. The New York Times reported on
February 14 that more than half of the 26,000 detainees in US custody are still awaiting trial -
many having been imprisoned for years. (2)

For example, Bilal Hussein, a photographer from The Associated Press, has been detained
by the US military since April of 2006, while no evidence or charges have been brought forward
against him in court. (3)

Bilal Hussein is one of many individuals urgently seeking a just and expedient manner
to challenge their detainment.

Most of the prisoners held by the Iraqi and American governments are Sunni Arabs,
accused of fueling the insurgency. (4) This sectarian imbalance has created controversy, with
many Iraqis in the Sunni minority accusing Iraqi and American forces of foul play.

These individuals often reference the precedent set at the detention centers at Bagram
Air Base in Afghanistan as well as at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

Filmmaker Alex Gibney explores these abuses in his new documentary, "Taxi to the Dark
Side." While much of his film examines the mistreatment of prisoners at locations such as Bagram
and Guantanamo, Gibney also focuses on the process by which these individuals are often taken
into custody. One such US policy involves offering financial compensation to Afghani warlords
and Pakistani forces for the capture of Iraqi "insurgents." Gibney notes that these bounties
accounted for 93 percent of the population at Guantanamo. (5)

These detainees have encountered what many civil rights groups have deemed brutal and
inhumane conditions.

In 2002, US officials deported Canadian Maher Arar to Syria, where he was subsequently
tortured. According to a 2006 report, Mr. Arar, after being interrogated by US officials, was
extradited to a Syrian facility where he "was questioned for 16 to 18 hours, and was subjected
to great physical and psychological abuse.... Mr. Arar was beaten with [a] black cable on a
number of occasions throughout the day, and was threatened with electric shock...." (6) Maher
Arar later tried to challenge his rendition and sue then-Attorney General John Ashcroft, but the
US government dismissed his case, citing a rarely-invoked state secrets privilege.

Denied proper trial, prisoners at Guantanamo are processed by Combatant Status Review
Tribunals, where evidence remains private and inaccessible to defendants.

Feeling they have no other recourse, detainees have frequently resorted to drastic
measures such as hunger strikes. (7) and (8) According to The Washington Post, as many as 128
prisoners took part in such protests at one point in 2005, with many more following suit since then.

John Pace, former UN human rights chief for Iraq, stated in 2005 that the US was
"abusing its mandate in Iraq." One of Mr. Pace`s key complaints regarded the treatment of
detainees. (9)

"There is no question that terrorism has to be addressed. But we are equally sure that
the remedies being applied are not the best way of eliminating terrorism," Pace said. "More
terrorists are being created than are being eliminated."

While the US has certain authorities for managing security in Iraq under United Nations
Security Council Resolutions, the Bush administration has continually sought to push the bounds
of US authority in Iraq. Most recently, as reported by The New York Times, the Bush
administration is pressing to replace the UN mandate with a direct military agreement with Iraq.
The agreement would continue a controversial policy of protection of private contractors from
Iraqi local law, as well as US authority for detainment. (10)

The latest UN resolution for the authorization of multinational forces (MNF) in Iraq
(Resolution 1790), however, was met with substantial resistance by Iraqi lawmakers. In April
2007, the majority of the Iraqi parliament signed a letter written to the UN demanding a
timetable for withdrawal of MNF - composed primarily of US forces. The letter referred to these
forces as "occupation forces." (11)

Such stern language was followed by a June 5 law signed by the majority of the
parliament, demanding legislative approval of any future UN MNF renewal. (12)

But despite mounting dissent, Nouri al-Maliki rushed the MNF renewal through the UN,
authorizing the presence of multinational forces, ignoring the majority of the legislature and
population of Iraq and allowing the perpetuation of security and detainment policies of the Bush
administration. (13)

----------

Christopher Kuttruff is a frequent contributor to Truthout.org.

----------

(1)http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=57437&archive=true

(2)http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/14/world/middleeast/14justice.html

(3)http://www.ap.org/bilalhussein/

(4)http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L08786699.htm

(5)"Taxi to the Dark Side," directed by Alex Gibney

(6)http://www.ararcommission.ca/eng/AR_English.pdf

(7)http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/12/AR2005091201690.html

(8)http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/04/08/news/gitmo.php


(9)http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/america-abusing-mandate-in-iraq/2005/12/05/1133631201911.html


(10)http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/25/world/middleeast/25military.html?_r=1&pagewanted=print&oref=login


(11)http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/document/2007/042007unletterenglish.pdf

(12)http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/unrole/2007/1105legalrenewal.htm

(13)http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/51624/

________________________________________________________________


A reasonably just and well-ordered democratic society might be possible, and . . . justice as
fairness should have a special place among the political conceptions in its political and social
world. . . [M]any are prepared to accept the conclusion that a just and well-ordered democratic
society is not possible, and even regard it as obvious. Isn`t admitting it part of growing up,
part of the inevitable loss of innocence? But is this conclusion one we can so easily accept?
The answer we give to the question of whether a just democratic society is possible and
can be stable for the right reasons affects our background thoughts and attitudes about the
world as a whole. And it affects these thoughts and attitudes before we come to actual politics,
and limits or inspires how we take part in it. . .
If we take for granted as common knowledge that a just and well-ordered democratic society
is impossible, then the quality and tone of those attitudes will reflect that knowledge. A cause
of the fall of Wiemar`s constitutional regime was that none of the traditional elites of Germany
supported its constitution or were willing to cooperate to make it work. They no longer
believed a decent liberal parliamentary regime was possible. Its time had past.

The regime fell first to a series of authoritarian cabinet governments from 1930 to 1932. When
these were increasingly weakened by their lack of popular support, President Hindenburg was
finally persuaded to turn to Hitler, who had such support and whom conservatives thought they
could control.
~ John Rawls "Political Liberalism" pg. lx

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
____________________________________________________________________________________
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +

Finally, the campaigns of 1793 and 1794 set Clausewitz on the path of recognizing war as a
political phenomenon. Wars, as everyone knew, were fought for a purpose that was political, or
at least always had political consequences. Not as readily apparent was the implication that
followed. If war was meant to achieve a political purpose, everything that entered into war —
social and economic preparation, strategic planning, the conduct of operations, the use of
violence on all levels — should be determined by this purpose, or at least accord with it. Even
though soldiers had to acquire special expertise, and function in what in some respects was a
separate world, it would be a denial of reality to allow them to carry on their bloody work
undisturbed until an armistice brought their political employer back into the equation. Just as
war and its institutions reflected their social environment, so every aspect of fighting should
be suffused by its political impulse, whether this impulse was intense or moderate. The
appropriate relationship between politics and war occupied Clausewitz throughout his life, but
even his earliest manuscripts and letters show his awareness of their interaction.
The ease with which this link — always acknowledged in the abstract — can be forgotten in
specific cases, and Clausewitz’s insistence that it must never be overlooked, are illustrated by
his polite rejection toward the end of his life of a strategic problem set by the chief of the
Prussian General Staff, in which every military detail of the opposing sides was spelled out,
but no mention made of their political purpose. To a friend who had sent him the problem for
comment, Clausewitz replied that it was not possible to draft a sensible plan of operations
without indicating the political condition of the states involved, and their relationship to
each other: ‘War is not an independent phenomenon, but the continuation of politics by different
means. Consequently, the main lines of every major strategic plan are largely political in
nature, and their political character increases the more the plan applies to the entire campaign
and to the whole state. A war plan results directly from the political conditions of the two
warring states, as well as from their relations to third powers. A plan of campaign results from
the war plan, and frequently - if there is only one theater of operations - may even be
identical with it. But the political element even enters the separate components of a campaign;
rarely will it be without influence on such major episodes of warfare as a battle, etc.
According to this point of view, there can be no question of a purely military evaluation of a
great strategic issue, nor of a purely military scheme to solve it.’

Everyman’s Library, 1993 ISBN: 0679420436 On war /by Clausewitz, Carl von, 1780-1831.
Knopf, 1993. From the introduction by Peter Paret, Pg7
_____________________________________________________________________

The U-2 is a jet-powered reconnaissance aircraft specially designed to fly at high altitudes
(i.e., above 70,000 ft [21 km]). It was used during the late 1950s to overfly the Soviet Union,
China, the Middle East, and Cuba; flights over the Soviet Union, the primary mission for which
the plane was designed, ended in 1960 when a U-2 flown by CIA pilot Gary Powers was shot down
over the Soviet Union. This event was a major political embarrassment for the U.S.
http://www.espionageinfo.com/Te-Uk/U-2-Spy-Plane.html

Soviet Prime Minister Khrushchev`s reaction to the overflights which were discovered
just before a summit conference in Paris with President Eisenhower: "It was as though the
Americans had deliberately tried to place a time bomb under the meeting" . . ."How could they
count on us to give them a helping hand if we allowed ourselves to be spat upon without so much
as a murmur of protest?" The only solution was to demand a formal public apology from Eisenhower
and a guarantee that no more overflights would take place . . .
But the apology Khrushchev was looking for would not come. Despite having trespassed on
the Soviet Union for the past four years with scores of flights by both U-2`s and heavy bombers,
the old general still could not say the words, it was just not in him. . . A time bomb had
exploded, prematurely ending the summit conference. . .
Back in Washington, the mood was glum. The Senate Foreign Relations Committee was leaning
toward holding a closed door investigation into the U-2 incident . . . In public, Eisenhower
maintained a brave face. He "heartily approved" of the congressional probe and would `of course
fully cooperate,` he quickly told anyone who asked. But in private he was very troubled. For
weeks he had tried to head off the investigation. His major concern was that his own personal
involvement in the overflights would surface, especially the May Day disaster. Equally, he was
very worried that details of the dangerous bomber overflights would leak out. The massed
overflight may in fact, have been one of the most dangerous actions ever approved by a president.
pg. 51-55 ~Body of Secrets; Anatomy of the Ultra Secret National Security Agency
James Bamford
-------
---------------------------
____________________________________________________________________

"Let me give you a word of the philosophy of reform. The whole history of the progress of human
liberty shows that all concessions yet made to her august claims, have been born of earnest
struggle. The conflict has been exciting, agitating, all-absorbing, and for the time being,
putting all other tumults to silence. It must do this or it does nothing. If there is no
struggle there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom and yet depreciate agitation,
are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and
lightening. They want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters."


"This struggle may be a moral one, or it may be a physical one, and it may be both moral and
physical, but it must be a struggle. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and
it never will. Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the
exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue
till they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are
prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress. In the light of these ideas, Negroes
will be hunted at the North, and held and flogged at the South so long as they submit to those
devilish outrages, and make no resistance, either moral or physical. Men may not get all they
pay for in this world; but they must certainly pay for all they get. If we ever get free from
the oppressions and wrongs heaped upon us, we must pay for their removal. We must do this by
labor, by suffering, by sacrifice, and if needs be, by our lives and the lives of others."
http://www.buildingequality.us/Quotes/Frederick_Douglass.htm
Frederick Douglass, 1857
- - - - - -> More political discussion continues at
http://www.politicsusaweb.com/

This post contains copyrighted material the use of which has not always been specifically
authorized by the copyright owner. I am making such material available in my efforts to advance
understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic, democracy, scientific, and
social justice issues, etc. I believe this constitutes a `fair use` of any such copyrighted
material as provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title 17
U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without profit to those who have
expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational
purposes.
For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml. If you wish
to use copyrighted material from this site for purposes of your own that go beyond `fair use`,
you must obtain permission from the copyright owner.


Next Topic

SUBJECT: Re: ! ! America as fascist state: US Detention of Iraqis Grows Without End ! !
GO >>>

From: "Jeff Strickland"
Subject: Re: ! ! America as fascist state: US Detention of Iraqis Grows Without End ! !
Lines: 25
format=flowed;
charset="Windows-1252";
reply-type=response
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 23:52:45 GMT









"Thaddeus Stevens" wrote in message
news:1ewNj.8542$V14.5500(at)nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com...
> US Detention of Iraqis Grows Without End By Christopher
> Kuttruff
> t r u t h o u t | Report Wednesday 20 February 2008
>
> http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/022008S.shtml
>
> The United States is, once again, expanding the size of its
> largest detention center in
> Iraq. According to an October 31 report by the military paper Stars and
> Stripes, US forces will
> be increasing the capacity of detainees at Camp Bucca from 20,000 to
> 30,000. (1)
>

That should tell you something about the radical Islamists that go around
blowing up the regular people.




Next Topic

SUBJECT: Re: ! ! America as fascist state: US Detention of Iraqis Grows Without End ! !
GO >>>

From: Topaz
Subject: Re: ! ! America as fascist state: US Detention of Iraqis Grows Without End ! !
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 18:05:18 -0500
Organization: NewsGuy - Unlimited Usenet $19.95
Lines: 28









In March 1937 Mussolini made a spectacular state visit to Libya, where
he opened a new military highway running the entire length of the
colon., He had himself declared protector of Islam and was presented
with a symbolic sword.

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Libya/History

the Italian dictator Benito Mussolini arranged for Muslim notables
from Italian-ruled Libya to gird him with the "sword of Islam" during
a visit to Tripoli. "Muslims may rest assured," Mussolini intoned on
that occasion, "that Italy will always be the friend and protector of
Islam throughout the world." His foreign minister declared Muslim
values perfectly compatible with fascism: "The Islamic world, in
accordance with its traditions, loves in the Duce the wisdom of the
statesman united to the action of the warrior."74

http://www.danielpipes.org/article/90

Mussolini vows to help the Palestinian cause against the Jews.

http://www.stern.de/community/forum/thread.jsp?forum=35&thread=57402&message=840948

http://www.ihr.org/ http://www.natvan.com

http://www.thebirdman.org http://www.nsm88.com/

http://wsi.matriots.com/jews.html




Title: South Carolina GOP chairmen: Sen. DeMint like a ‘Jew’ who is ‘watching our nation’s pennies’
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 23:36:40 +0000
Author: btchakir

Even a Conservative Publication, The Palmetto Scoop, a conservative e-zine in South Carolina, reacted to the letter with disgust:

Umm… who in mainstream America thinks it’s a good idea to write something like that in a guest editorial? Especially in light of the racially-motivated attention garnered by South Carolina Republican activists over the past few months.

jimdemint


More on: http://underthelobsterscope.wordpress.com/2009/10/19/south-carolina-gop-chairmen-sen-demint-like-a-%e2%80%98jew%e2%80%99-who-is-%e2%80%98watching-our-nation%e2%80%99s-pennies%e2%80%99/











Powered by Lv501.com